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Wrong stroke direction for JP glyph U+6414 (搔) #215

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ghost opened this issue Jul 21, 2024 · 5 comments
Open

Wrong stroke direction for JP glyph U+6414 (搔) #215

ghost opened this issue Jul 21, 2024 · 5 comments

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@ghost
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ghost commented Jul 21, 2024

The seventh stroke in U+6414 搔 points left in Source Han Serif JP:
sourcesep
According to the JIS X 213 standard (page 13) and the Japanese government's official form list for non-jouyou characters (表外漢字字体表, page 10), it should point right:
jis213p
govp

@Marcus98T
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Marcus98T commented Jul 25, 2024

So basically your request is to make it like the current TW glyph?
Screenshot 2024-07-26 at 02 58 38

For reference, here is the Kozuka Mincho glyph which also has the issue.
Screenshot 2024-07-26 at 02 54 29

This is the Unicode charts for reference. Apparently even the JP reference show that the seventh stroke is to be pointed right.
Screenshot 2024-07-26 at 03 00 41

If this is to be followed through, I would suggest that the JP shape and aesthetics be kept, adjust the seventh stroke to point right, the TW glyph can be removed and the adjusted JP glyph can be mapped to KR, TW and HK as well.

@NightFurySL2001
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Do be noted that the current form is provided as-is from Adobe-Japan1.
image

@ghost
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ghost commented Jul 27, 2024

So basically your request is to make it like the current TW glyph?

Essentially, since it is identical to the JP one except for the direction of that stroke. I should note that this problem is also present in Source Han Sans JP.

For reference, here is the Kozuka Mincho glyph which also has the issue.

Many Japanese fonts have it for some reason. One of the few that don't are the IPA fonts, which, to my knowledge, are fully JIS-compliant:
comparison

Do be noted that the current form is provided as-is from Adobe-Japan1.

Odd. I wonder where that had come from, since both government references show it pointing the other way. Perhaps from how 蚤, the radical, does, in fact, have a left-pointing stroke according to them.
I haven't checked other glyphs with the radical aside from 搔 and 騷 (the latter of which does have the correct right stroke in Source Han), but it might be worth looking into them to see that they are also compliant.

@ghost
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ghost commented Jul 31, 2024

@NightFurySL2001, as suspected, other glyphs with this 蚤 radical might suffer the same problem. I checked various glyphs in Source Han and Adobe-Japan1, and compared them to the Japanese government's 戸籍統一文字 search and the IPAmjMincho font, used in the 文字情報基盤 (more information), as most of these characters aren't in any JIS standard.

I could find the following characters that seem to have the same problem as 搔, and are both also shown with the left-pointing stroke in Adobe-Japan1, which is relevant to adobe-type-tools/Adobe-Japan1#9:

  • 慅 U+6145 - CID+21578 - Wrong stroke direction
  • 糔 U+7CD4 - CID+22192 - Wrong stroke direction

The following characters, I could not find in Adobe-Japan1, but still seem wrong in Source Han JP fonts:

  • 溞 U+6E9E - CID ? - Missing stroke but only in Source Han Sans JP, in Serif it seems correct
  • 㮻 U+3BBB - CID ? - Missing stroke
  • 鰠 U+9C20 - CID ? - Missing stroke
  • 㲧 U+3CA7 - CID ? - Missing stroke
  • 颾 U+98BE - CID ? - Missing stroke
  • 鼜 U+9F1C - CID ? - Missing stroke

The following characters seemed correct:

  • 瑵 U+7475 - CID ?
  • 瘙 U+7619 - CID+14857

I doubt this list is exhaustive.

@NightFurySL2001
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For the two JP-related character you mentioned, only 糔 U+7CD4 shows the incorrect form based on original sources; 慅 U+6145 is using the correct dot direction. Below is a screenshot of the original source JIS X 0212:1990, with their glyphs various sources. I will report 糔 U+7CD4 to Adobe-Japan1.
image

For the rest, they are not used in Japanese, and thus you should not expect they will match the glyph forms for JP. However in some cases (eg 鰠颾鼜), there are suitable TW/HK glyphs which can be used by JP if they are in Big5/HKSCS. You should open a new issue for remapping suggestions are they are out-of-scope for Japanese, but can be count as improvement for JP/KR.
image

If there is no suitable glyph, the glyph with missing stroke is the only choice as Source Han only fills the CJK Basic and Extension A due to GB18030 from China, thus these will only use the Chinese (China) form with the missing dot.

You may use my tool on https://nightfurysl2001.github.io/shs-cid/ as a reference for the glyphs provided by Source Han projects. Current CJK characters with 蚤 are: 蚤慅搔溞瑵瘙糔颾騷骚鰠鳋鼜㮻㲧𠋺𠹏𡠁𢔳𣉔𤔢𤠘𥰱𦃐𦞣𦻩𧂩𧎇𧒕𧔓𨃣𨪊𩙫𩮚

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