Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 3 #35

andimik · 2020-03-27T16:33:26Z

Summary of closed issue #28 (= Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 2)

In the meanwhile there are lots of radios stations all over Europe using DVB-MPE, use the new tools mpe2aac, mpe2mpa or mpe2ts to extract
some more DAB streams detected from Italy (RAI) and Turkey, some (orbital) changes over the past months
German EDI transponder filled with (currently) nine DAB ensembles
Improvements in Dablin done (frame-align stream not needed any more)
NRK DAB feed transponder (DVB-GSE??) still not be decodeable by any tool, only a hex editor shows the content
EDI DAB services from both German BR and RBB as well as VRT (Belgium) started with tests over the internet, use
wget -q -O - https://rbbedi.irt.de:443/services/x | dablin_gtk -f edi -I
wget -q -O - https://bredi.irt.de:443/services/x | dablin_gtk -f edi -I
wget -q -O - http://edihttp.vrt.be:8187/services/x | dablin_gtk -f edi -I -1
to listen to, whereas x is the subchannel ID, see https://www.fmlist.org/sendertabelle/dab-ww.php and http://search-hradio.irt.de/
Combining them to a single DAB ETI stream is not 100% possible, but there is a workaround with dropouts
for DVB-IP streams the TSReader now shows the UDP port number since 2.8.55a, alternatively, you get it in Wireshark as well

The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered:

jpuigs · 2020-03-30T16:01:56Z

I've read today that Media Broadcast has been awarded the contract to broadcast DAB+ services for NDR and RBB regional broadcasters for 4 years (+2 optional ones)
So, as other Media Broadcast DAB+ emsembles are on Eutelsat 7ºE and Astra 23.5ºE, we should be watching those positions... maybe something appears....

https://www.radioszene.de/142405/ndr-rbb-media-broadcastdigitalradio-dab.html

andimik · 2020-03-30T16:29:59Z

Well, thanks for your message. But I personally don't expect them via satellite in future as the NDR will be split to regional multiplexes soon.

The only one which might be on satellite is Bundesmux II which starts later this year.

jpuigs · 2020-03-30T17:13:55Z

I read some days ago (thanks to online translators) that NDR was going to expand DAB+ this year on some regions, and regionalization of the NDR 1 national programmes would take place in the summer.
But as some regional ensembles are found on 7ºEast (Bayern, BW and Hessen) , let's think it could be possible too.....

jpuigs · 2020-06-17T22:08:37Z

DAB Italia and EuroDAB Italia feeds have left 5º West, 12690 V.

andimik · 2020-06-19T19:11:19Z

Thanks, see 6096328

andimik · 2020-08-05T05:45:12Z

SDL and D1 are now also on 9 East, 12092H, but in DVB-S2. Readme has been updated.

Remark: BBC is still at 4.8 East.

jpuigs · 2020-08-05T15:06:51Z

So.......... we may supose that one of the two current feeds (4.8 E or 28 E) will be removed.
Which one do you think will be removed ?
I've never understood why the BBC has only one feed, and the two private ones (D1 and SND Dig) have two.

newspaperman · 2020-09-02T15:08:25Z

Anyone spotted BMux2 already?

jpuigs · 2020-09-02T18:16:28Z

I've tried to look for small carriers near the current known ones, at 7 East (12572 V) and 23.5 East (1264X V), but I don't find anything.
😢

andimik · 2020-09-21T21:34:57Z

A German DXer informed me that the Turkish transport stream only consists of NULL bytes at the moment.

$ cat ~/Downloads/42e_trt-dab.ts | tsanalyze --pid-list
8191

newspaperman · 2020-09-22T07:08:37Z

@jpuigs ok it seems the SFN s not yet active, there are terrwstrial tests already, but they only produce one single service "program 1" without audio.

jpuigs · 2020-09-22T10:57:03Z

But I've seen over last weeks on german forums that there are some programms on air.
I supose there were sporadic "local" tests.

newspaperman · 2020-09-22T11:04:34Z

You are rights the test mux was active on one transmitter only, I think there the Dab muxer is located.

jpuigs · 2020-09-22T22:53:02Z

A German DXer informed me that the Turkish transport stream only consists of NULL bytes at the moment.
$ cat ~/Downloads/42e_trt-dab.ts | tsanalyze --pid-list
8191

Still NULL packets.....

andimik · 2020-09-24T15:01:01Z

TRT is back.

jpuigs · 2020-09-24T18:37:03Z

👍

andimik · 2020-09-25T22:28:41Z

Anyone spotted BMux2 already?

Yes, I found it, but it's in GSE.

Astra 23,5 East, 12668 V, DVB-S2, SR 1500, 8PSK
Both are there, Bundesmux and Bundesmux 2

bumux.ts.gse.zip

Depending on the TBS card it says encapsulated, generic or continuous stream. And I fear the MIS is 1 or even 2 (depending on the card).

So no chance for us (yet).

Have list it in the README.md, see c7ef54b

jpuigs · 2020-09-25T22:53:54Z

Good and Bad news.
But if we can't see what's inside, how do you know they are both Bmux streams ?

andimik · 2020-09-26T11:21:35Z

If you want to see what's inside, why not using a (Hex-)Editor ... ?

Here is a longer file, captured by TBS6903x Professional.

23.5E_12668,085_V_1500_(2020-09-26 12.54.15)_dump.zip

During the current tests German forums and Facebook reports show the same only service "Programm 1"

After a while the old DVB-S Stream will disappear for sure as GSE is much more modern and accurate.

If someone wants to try with a SDR (software defined radio) solution: Use a DVB-T (!!) Stick with E4000 Tuner (due to the very high frequency above 2 GHz) or HackRF or other and http://www.pabr.org/radio/leandvb/leandvb.en.html and then please report if you can see and use (!) the BB frames.

jpuigs · 2020-09-26T13:41:46Z

If you want to see what's inside, why not using a (Hex-)Editor ... ?

I did it, but I didn't notice anything about Bmux or Bmux2. Maybe I looked for too fast......
Which editor are you using ? (Speedview?)
I use Hex editor neo, but I think yours is "lighter".
I only have two RTL-SDR DVB-T sticks RT820, so I can't test.....

andimik · 2020-09-26T14:39:41Z

The build in editor in Transedit is fine, as well. This is a shareware called Speed Commander, but any other should be OK, too.

Let me try with my dongle, as I did it for neighboring DLF on the same transponder in the past.

newspaperman · 2020-09-28T08:46:54Z

@andimik great catch! Unfortunately I think old BMux feed will disappear soon. The new GSE stream has a better spectral efficiency.
Fortunately yours TBS 6903x, Cine S2 V7 and MAX SX8 is able to receive the GSE correctly. It's done by reencapsulation into a pseudo TS generated by the ECP3 media bridge:
https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1312613794&postcount=30&forum=106995

TBS and DigitalDevices cards however differ:
TBS only reencapsulates the GSE packets
DigitalDevices reencapsulates the whole BBFrames.

However there's still one piece of software missing that extracts the content of the IPv4 packets out of the GSE packets.

piratfm · 2020-09-28T09:13:18Z

Actually, there is libgse that can decapsulate network packets from GSE, but I found only testing tool as reference of how to do that, and it uses .pcap files, not a raw BBframes: https://forge.net4sat.org/opensand/libgse/blob/master/test/test_encap_deencap.c

jpuigs · 2020-09-30T18:09:23Z

My TBS5927 shows 2 Muti streams, but none of them has output stream ¿¿¿¿????
I think 5927 is not suitable......

andimik · 2020-09-30T18:57:08Z

Forget 5927, this card cannot handle that at all. I am not sure if the Multistream here is correct or not.

jpuigs · 2020-10-07T23:04:02Z

As my 5927 can't handle that........... which TBS device (USB) would work ?

andimik · 2020-10-08T05:14:14Z

Well, don't buy it, you will be very angry like many others according to the TBS forum. It's a massive step backwards for a feed hunter.

Believe me, I have it as well.

As long there is no better driver and no software to handle this kind of streams you only can use notepad.exe or your favorite hex editor to view the raw input.

And: There is no USB solution yet. I had to buy a desktop PC.

jpuigs · 2020-10-08T20:45:18Z

Thanks, I didn't plan to buy anything... just asked to know if any USB would see something.
The only TBS that lets you "see" raw input are 6903-x and 6909-x pcie cards ?

andimik · 2020-10-09T11:03:41Z

Yes, newspaperman also mentioned two other cards.

With 5927 you might see some bytes. But not a constant stream.

andimik · 2024-05-13T14:17:42Z

I fear you are asking the wrong persons to support you.

For assistance in this particular software please ask the programmer/manufacturer or read its manual. As it is common DVB-S (no multistream, no encryption, no GSE) you probably just need to check another transponder what the exact syntax is. There are plenty of old DVB-S transponders still on 19.2E.

As you already succeeded in receiving and (!!) decoding the mux I don't see a problem here.

Benedek012 · 2024-05-13T14:22:03Z

tune-s2 11604 V 2200 -system DVB-S -lnb UNIVERSAL -adapter 1
status Locked | signal -31.8 dBm | snr 15.0 dB | ber 0 | FE_HAS_LOCK
Closing frontend ... This is no Enigma 2 Telnet.

andimik · 2024-05-13T14:28:50Z

You are able to lock according to the log. Signal is good enough (15 dB). But please understand we will not be able to solve your problem.

Please read the manual of this software or ask your question in a board (maybe also in your language).

But you are definitely wrong here.

mrwish7 · 2024-06-03T20:57:44Z

Did something change with the 2 German national muxes on 23.5°E 12641 V? My TBS6903X still locks the transponder perfectly and gives GSE data, but pts2bbf/bbfedi2eti don't seem to be able to decode anything any more.

I'm trying to figure out if something has changed with the transmission or it's a DVB driver bug. The PID seems to have changed from 270 to 280 for the pseudo TS data (so I had to rebuild pts2bbf) which is making me wonder about the drivers.

andimik · 2024-06-03T21:15:55Z

Have you checked your (software) setup? The (pseudo) PID has nothing to do with the GSE transmission.

mrwish7 · 2024-06-03T21:22:08Z

Have you checked your (software) setup? The (pseudo) PID has nothing to do with the GSE transmission.

I think it probably is this, new drivers were released in the last month and I updated to them. I will roll back and re-test. I just wanted to confirm that nothing has changed with the actual transmission and it should still work as before?

andimik · 2024-06-04T07:31:58Z

Could you please specify which driver you are talking about? There are several (TBS web page, github.com, deeptho).

I mean, your observation shall be a warning for all users which want to receive GSE packets.

mrwish7 · 2024-06-04T09:56:34Z

Could you please specify which driver you are talking about? There are several (TBS web page, github.com, deeptho).

I mean, your observation shall be a warning for all users which want to receive GSE packets.

I'm using the TBSDTV Github drivers - installed as indicated here: https://github.com/tbsdtv/linux_media/wiki

andimik · 2024-06-04T15:37:18Z

You wrote you have changed the PID in pts2bbf (I did it as well some time ago). But does it work then?

I cannot test GSE at the moment.

YoannQueret · 2024-06-12T15:58:14Z

I try to lock the 2 German national muxes (Bundesmux) on 23.5°E 12641 V.
Is the SR is always 1342 ? My problem is probably with a bad SR configuration.

andimik · 2024-06-12T18:30:52Z

On Monday I could listen to them. The SR is 1500.

Please read the Readme.md and note that you need appropriate hardware for that.

mrwish7 · 2024-06-12T20:17:09Z

I rolled back my TBS drivers to the versions I previously used (which worked before) and I still can't decode 12641V on 23.5°E.

The signal seems to lock fine at around 11dB C/N on my TBS6903X, but the output BBFrames decapsulated from the pseudo TS seem to be continuous stream frames rather than GSE frames, this may explain the different pseudo TS PID (I believe the pseudo PID changes based on the mode). Something seems to have changed. What device are you using @andimik ?

andimik · 2024-06-13T05:04:51Z

It is a TBS 6903x v1, but in the past months I was using my PC somewhere else and didn't update it for a while.

mrwish7 · 2024-06-14T09:13:43Z

Just to update on this, the problem I was having is now solved thanks to @crazycat69 - tbsdtv/linux_media#356

The bbframe option has to be set in the module options for stid135 in order for the GSE BBFrames to be encapsulated in the expected way, so adding the following to /etc/modprobe.d/stid135.conf and reloading the drivers (either manually or by reboot) fixes it -

options stid135 bbframe=1

andimik · 2024-06-14T11:59:40Z

He mentioned to use the GSE branch. Do you need to set this parameter, too?

mrwish7 · 2024-06-14T12:47:52Z

He mentioned to use the GSE branch. Do you need to set this parameter, too?

No, everything else is the same as before - using the 'latest' branch.

From how I understand it, it seems the 'gse' branch allows you to get the actual raw GSE data from the card, rather than the pseudo TS encapsulated version that we use for pts2bbf etc. This could be interesting to try out.

andimik · 2024-06-14T13:03:20Z

@newspaperman see above, maybe the GSE branch will do the same like your tool pts2bbf?

andimik · 2024-07-01T21:42:26Z

I've just discovered, that both Bundesmuxes from Germany now can be received with normal DVB-S hardware (even if they are 20 years old).

https://www.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=12168&liste=1&live=70&lang=en

 fedi2eti 4122 239.128.72.10 50010 2> /dev/null | ni2out
--list
Antenne DE       (0x11f7)
 0 : Brillux Radio    (0x1299) Pri subch=15 start=648 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 1 : Absolut GERMANY  (0x121c) Pri subch=18 start=810 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 2 : AIDAradio        (0x1259) Pri subch=17 start=756 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 3 : 90s90s           (0x12e9) Pri subch=16 start=702 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 4 : Beats Radio      (0x1258) Pri subch=14 start=594 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 5 : BALLERMANN RADIO (0x12c8) Pri subch=11 start=432 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 6 : NOSTALGIE        (0x122a) Pri subch=13 start=540 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 7 : 80s80s           (0x1057) Pri subch=12 start=486 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 8 : TOGGO Radio      (0x1298) Pri subch= 5 start=162 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 9 : RTL RADIO        (0x1229) Pri subch= 4 start=108 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
10 : OLDIE ANTENNE    (0x121d) Pri subch= 2 start= 54 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
11 : ROCK ANTENNE     (0x121b) Pri subch= 1 start=  0 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
12 : Absolut OLDIE    (0x121a) Pri subch=10 start=378 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
13 : Absolut BELLA    (0x1219) Pri subch= 9 start=324 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
14 : Absolut HOT      (0xdc1a) Pri subch= 7 start=216 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
15 : Absolut TOP      (0x1218) Pri subch= 8 start=270 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+

fedi2eti 4121 239.128.43.43 50043 | ni2out --list
using pid 4121 ip 239.128.43.43 port 50043
[07/01/24 23:34:23] Initialise next pseq to 44791
[07/01/24 23:34:23] EDI-AF: Packet sequence error
DR Deutschland   (0x10bc)
 0 : KLASSIK RADIO    (0xd75b) Pri subch= 6 start=192 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 1 : SUNSHINE LIVE    (0x15dc) Pri subch=21 start=330 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
 2 : radio horeb      (0xd01c) Pri subch= 5 start=156 CUs= 36 PL=eep-3a bitrate=48 DAB+
 3 : ERF Plus         (0x1a64) Pri subch= 2 start=  0 CUs= 48 PL=eep-3a bitrate=64 DAB+
 4 : Dlf              (0xd210) Pri subch=10 start=480 CUs=104 PL=eep-2a bitrate=104 DAB+
 5 : Dlf Kultur       (0xd220) Pri subch=11 start=584 CUs=112 PL=eep-2a bitrate=112 DAB+
 6 : Dlf Nova         (0xd230) Pri subch=12 start=696 CUs=104 PL=eep-2a bitrate=104 DAB+
 7 : DRadio DokDeb    (0xd240) Pri subch=13 start=800 CUs= 36 PL=eep-3a bitrate=48 DAB+
 8 : Schwarzwaldradio (0x100d) Pri subch= 7 start=246 CUs= 42 PL=eep-2b bitrate=64 DAB+
 9 : ENERGY           (0x1a45) Pri subch= 4 start=102 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
10 : SCHLAGERPARADIES (0x10c3) Pri subch=20 start=288 CUs= 42 PL=eep-2b bitrate=64 DAB+
11 : Absolut relax    (0x17fa) Pri subch= 3 start= 48 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+
12 : RADIO BOB!       (0x15dd) Pri subch=22 start=384 CUs= 54 PL=eep-3a bitrate=72 DAB+

YoannQueret · 2024-07-02T11:41:19Z

I've just discovered, that both Bundesmuxes from Germany now can be received with normal DVB-S hardware (even if they are 20 years old).

Yes ! I Confirm.
23.5°E 12168V SR 27500 DVB-S
1.BuMux SID 4121
2.BuMux SID 4122

YoannQueret · 2024-07-09T10:37:41Z

I've just discovered, that both Bundesmuxes from Germany now can be received with normal DVB-S hardware (even if they are 20 years old).

Yes ! I Confirm. 23.5°E 12168V SR 27500 DVB-S 1.BuMux SID 4121 2.BuMux SID 4122

It seem the two BuMux are no longer broadcasted on 12168V

andimik · 2024-07-09T12:43:39Z

I realized too, but thought they would be back soon, which was not the case ... Anyway, they might switch to 19.2E (like WDR and Kronehit) in the next future. But no idea what format they will use.

andimik · 2024-07-27T10:03:07Z

@mrwish7

Dear Adam, I had to reinstall my PC but now I cannot listen to GSE Feeds (Bundesmux 1 and 2) anymore. Tried both, TBS Github driver and deeptho drivers for blindscan.

For me, there was no file /etc/modprobe.d/stid135.conf , so I have created it, added options stid135 bbframe=1, rebooted and it works now.

Thanks for your hint!

@mrwish7

mentioned in #35 (comment) thanks to user @mrwish7 and @crazycat69

andimik · 2024-07-28T17:59:05Z

Because there are too many postings here, please use the new issue #55

andimik mentioned this issue Mar 27, 2020

Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 2 #28

Closed

Repository owner deleted a comment from Benedek012 Jul 2, 2024

andimik added a commit that referenced this issue Jul 28, 2024

enable bbframes for stid135 (TBS 6903x)

3ccbfca

mentioned in #35 (comment) thanks to user @mrwish7 and @crazycat69

andimik mentioned this issue Jul 28, 2024

Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 4 #55

Open

andimik closed this as completed Jul 28, 2024

Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 3 #35

Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 3 #35

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andimik commented Mar 27, 2020

Summary of closed issue #28 (= Satellite sources of DAB feeds - part 2)

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