Proposal: <podcast:country> tag #616
Replies: 8 comments 27 replies
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My only hesitation is that ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 excludes England, Scotland, and Wales. For that, we’d have to support ISO 3166-2 subdivisions, which seems overly specific for all other use cases. |
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Putting aside the (in my opinion) uselessness of this tag overall - why are we only "recommending" this code, not mandating it? I say this as someone who was simultaneously born in
...and you have no idea how tiresome it is to look in country drop-downs under "E", "G", "T" and then "U" every time someone asks you for your birth country. |
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Curious: what would the |
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Please could I understand the use-case? Why would this be a useful additional field to burden podcasters with? How does it help the listener find a podcast that she would like to listen to? How might a sample UX look? as @johnspurlock hints at - the country is at best immaterial for Podnews’s daily show, and at worst, downright misleading. It is not a show about Australia. Why is it of any consequence where the show is from? A show from Canada could be in at least three different languages; Switzerland might be in four or five. So a listener that only speaks Romansch is not going to have much fun with a “view podcasts from Switzerland” navigation? The language tag is widely supported and helps a listener find shows in a language she speaks. The location tag helps a listener find a show that is “about” the Eiffel Tower or the Brooklyn Bridge. That show could have been made in Malaysia or Vanuatu; that’s immaterial to the content. What is the problem that this tag seeks to solve? And why is it best solving it with a country code and not a mirror of the location tag’s capabilities of specifying a country, a city, a street or a building? |
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@nathangathright I'd really appreciate a response to "why is it best solving it with a country code and not a mirror of the location tag’s capabilities of specifying a country, a city, a street or a building?" - it seems to me that, if we have to produce something like this, we do so using a rather more flexible way than just a "country". |
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I have no interest in advocating for this tag beyond creating this discussion thread. Multiple parties seemed interested but hadn’t bothered writing anything up, so I did just to put it to bed, one way or another. Que Será, Será. |
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We have implemented the podcast:country tag. We have it in every podcasters admin dashboard. We then show the country flag in the search results, the podcast page and on our homepage i.e we show the top 10 podcasts by country. As a user I can change my country to see other podcasts #discovery We are going to implement a maps solution. So people can discover where a podcast exists. I would like the location tag to be used conjunction with the country tag to further specific a location. So it might be (Country) Australia, (Location) Brisbane. Then if I wanted to do a meetup in a location I can see a map of all the podcasters. e.g Maps.fm (now closed). However we use the country location in many places on TrueFans. As a podcaster I can set my own country in the admin. 
TrueFans Homepage - we show the Top 10 podcasts for the country the user selected in their settings. 
User Settings - you can change the country to see the top 10 of different countries. 
Search - You can also search by country. We want to include a boolean search for country and location. |
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This is just dumb, Sam, sorry. The use-cases for the location tag (which is about where the podcast is about ):
Because the location tag is connected to OpenStreetMap, it allows a user interface to do just that - as well as the slightly less exciting "podcasts on a map" that maps.fm produced. I still can't understand the use-case for the "country" tag (i.e. "where is this podcast recorded").
If your use-case is "show me shows which are popular in GB" then you don't do that by looking at where shows are made, you do that by looking at where shows are consumed. And you alone have that aggregate data. If your use-case is "show me shows which are about things in GB" then use the location tag. If your use-case is "show me shows in my language" then use the language tag. Or if your use-case is none of those things, please explain what your use-case is. |
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The problem of the user wanting to find podcasts recorded by people in Brisbane.
Show me other podcasts made by people in Australia. |
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Where a podcast is recorded is of no interest to a listener if the content covered is not relevant to them. I've yet to see a compelling use-case for a listener, which is all I really care about. A podcast's recording location conveys almost nothing about the content of the show. I'm pushing against this because I don't believe listeners are asking to find "podcasts recorded near me". (I do believe they're looking for the similar "podcasts recorded about places near me".) |
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As a listener for over 18 years I have often looked for podcasts local to me to listen too. I know others who have as well. |
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Hi James, @picard102 I am Fyddo John researching podcasts in India. I was trying to use podcastindex.org to write an academic paper on the rise of regional podcasts. In India, we have 18 major languages and as many Indians are settled abroad the country tag can help differentiate between those in foreign lands and those podcasts/podcasting from India. I agree with James on a listener may not be interested in geotags. But it can help content creators and researchers like us who are exploring this cultural phenomenon taking off. I was also seeking an advice of whether can we use this podcastindex data for research work. Cause I see practically no one using this data for research. kindly advice |
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If no one else wants a country tag then so be it. Its part of TrueFans and we have some more ideas on how we plan to use the country metadata. As shown above we already have several ways in which we use the country flag. |
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I think there are people who want it and would find a use case for it. I also think it would be valuable for platforms that will be required to surface country specific content in the near future. |
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I can see some usecases myself, combining other tags or ideas you could search for podcasts from a specific country to get a cultural/exotic/local point of view about a subject or anything :
Of course sometimes a show hasn't a country. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. But some times it does. I guess it can be an optional tag the creator would decide if they need it or not. |
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@samsethi, you are not alone. 🫶 |
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I think this tag is totally unnecessary because it's redundant. Before you eat me alive, please hear me out! We already have This is what that location tag looks like currently: <podcast:location geo="geo:30.2672,97.7431" osm="R113314">Austin, TX</podcast:location>I suggest that, because of precedence, we assume that a tag as written above is the location the podcast or episode are about. But we add an extra attribute: <podcast:location geo="geo:30.2672,97.7431" osm="R113314" subject="true">Austin, TX</podcast:location>Now, this tag explicitly indicates that this location is a subject of the episode. Or switch it: <podcast:location geo="geo:30.2672,97.7431" osm="R113314" origin="true">Austin, TX</podcast:location>Now, the exact same location tag and generator can be used to indicate that this location is not the subject of the content, but its origin. I was originally thinking we should support This approach would make implementation and parsing easier than adding an additional tag, and it has the added bonus of further clarifying the existing tag. |
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+1 to improve existing tags instead of creating new ones. And +1 to this particular use case. I like the rel="usecase" version, it seems simpler to parse, but I would ask the current parties supporting the tag location |
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I like this idea. Not all tags are for the direct benefit of the listener; some are for the benefit of producers, hosts, advertisers, and others. Adding an attribute to the existing tag addresses what "country" is trying to solve, and allows for variable fidelity. It also means that if there are cases where the origin location doesn't make sense (e.g. podcasters in different countries for example) then you don't have to include it. |
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I suppose we could do
I think that's where we should allow multiple instances of this tag. And I only just now realized that |
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You can include location within the chapter JSON though, so that supports the multiple locations you mentioned, as long as you also use chapters. |
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I like this. How do I say "recorded in Orlando, but this is about the Brooklyn Bridge"? Two tags? |
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Hello everyone! TLDR;
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I get your point but I do not think it's worth it. |
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If the location tag already exists, then modifying it would be the least complex solution, and easiest to implement. If we don't want to complicate things. |
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No, no, no and NO.
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I second that. Modifying the location tag could lead to confusion. If you add a Also kimchi and apple, In fact, one of the reason we didn't published an annual top listened podcasts at podCloud, is the lack of triage between podcasts from french Quebec, French African countries, and French european countries. It's not the same audience at all, and it would be nice to sort those top listened by countries of "podcast nationality". And as stated before, all tags are optional, so a podcast could decide to let it empty if it is an international show. |
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I want to support both country and location. Country is great for many reasons to identify the number of podcasts per country etc. We use it also to identify the top 10 podcasts in each country. We use the GEOlocation API to set a default location for users and then in their settings they can change the country if they wish. I will be supporting the two letter iso code and this will stay in TrueFans as a feature even if its not supported by the community. We have other ideas on what we want to do with the country field. The location tag is more specific. Country could be UK but my location is Marlow, Bucks (shown in GEO code). Again I think the location filed has failed to date when its used to talk about the location discussed in the podcast. However there are two use cases location where I am located and location of the topic discussed in the podcast. @theDanielJLewis suggestion is a good one to help use one field to have multiple functions. I want to be able to map locations of podcasts to show local communities of podcasters. |
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@nathangathright we added ISO 3166 support to our search engine. So now when you choose the "Country" filter you can just type the two letter country code or type out the full country name. 
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As suggested by @benjaminbellamy and @samsethi, here’s a quick writeup of what I’ve heard others suggest.
Purpose
The
<podcast:location>tag describes the location of editorial focus for a podcast's content, and the<language>tag describes the language the channel is written in, but a new<podcast:country>tag would describe the country of origin for the podcast.Parent
<channel>Count
Single
Node Value
This is a free-form string meant to be a human-readable location. This value cannot be blank. Please do not exceed
128 charactersfor the node value, or it may be truncated by aggregators.Attributes
Examples
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