CSV export semantic

[Kivou-2000607]

Kivou [2000607]: ho yeah, I've got a couple of bots that rely on their API...

Kivou [2000607]: Even the YATA bot grabs spies from TS API

GenShinigami [2664617]: I pity their servers when the wars start.

GenShinigami [2664617]: Like, yeesh.

Kivou [2000607]: I'm the first to know when TS is down 😛

GenShinigami [2664617]: Rofl, I can imagine.

Kivou [2000607]: That's why I made YATA, to lower TS servers load ^^

Kivou [2000607]: But most of the factions I know keep their spies at TS.

Kivou [2000607]: Including my faction 🙃

kruug [2564233]: Did you ask Discord if they approve the bot?

kruug [2564233]: discord.py is still being updated as well.

SVD_NL [2363978]: There's no point. It hasn't implemented slash commands and discord has gone ahead and said that still using old style commands is not a valid reason for privileged intents.

Benamin15 [2257611]: Fkn rip. Discord’s new message intent rules are screwing a lot of people over <a:sweataf:846335633009279007>

Dyno [1043377]: Make several bots and put them in 100 servers at a time? 🤣

Asbestos [2605613]: I hate when I see platform providers make sweeping changes that jam compatibility etc

Marvin: I wish you'd just tell me rather trying to engage my enthusiasm because I haven't got one.

kruug [2564233]: Version 2.0 includes slash commands.

Asbestos [2605613]: I missed the reason for the limitation of 100 servers. Is that a discord thing too?

kruug [2564233]: Yea

KingLouisCLXXII [2070312]: Could the 100 server limit be bypassed by having numerous instances of the bot running?

kruug [2564233]: If you use intents, Discord limits to 100 servers until you need to be verified.

kruug [2564233]: Need a different AppID.

Dyno [1043377]: Have several staff do it?

Dyno [1043377]: Several IDs?

Asbestos [2605613]: It’s lot to work around as a labor of love

KingLouisCLXXII [2070312]: but yeah thats what i mean have multiple instances on different application

Marvin: And then, of course, I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side.

KingLouisCLXXII [2070312]: thus each one has its own appid

kruug [2564233]: I mean, it's all open source, so each server owner could run their own instance.

Dyno [1043377]: Maybe people should do that then and then maybe just pay for the updates?

kruug [2564233]: If it's open source, they could just pull updates.

Asbestos [2605613]: Kivou what about having the instance on the torn discord be the only one that supports commands, and then all the other servers using the verify module are just dumb slaves

Asbestos [2605613]: Would that reduce the message intent thing to 1?

kruug [2564233]: Could do a phased approach. Payers get updates a month early, for instance.

SVD_NL [2363978]: I believe technically possible, but it's a lot of work, and introduces a lot of overhead to recurring tasks, and the bot overall.
And it's an absolute pig to manage.

I'm also not sure if discord would be happy with this either and i can imagine their TOS mention something about it, i just haven't checked.

I've seen this solution come up a couple times, and I'm sure kivou has thought it over quite well.

Dyno [1043377]: If it is open source, then I don't see an issue, make all server owner have their own bot?...

Dyno [1043377]: Then YATA can continue lol

Asbestos [2605613]: The multiple instances thing also makes it more likely to run afoul of torns api key limits.

Kivou [2000607]: Yeah, they don't need me for that.

SVD_NL [2363978]: In the end there's still a lot of core issues that can only be solved with one thing: a complete rewrite, and even then, it's a serious labor of love to keep it running, while under constant threat of a library ending support or discord shoehorning in some other great idea

Asbestos [2605613]: Where right now I assume it is gaining some economies of scale as far as making a single request which goes to multiple endpoints.

Dyno [1043377]: Ched should step in here and give some sort of support to make this work, yata is a massive part of torn and he helped tornstats right?

Dyno [1043377]: Make a petition...

kruug [2564233]: Rewrite in a better language 😁

Kivou [2000607]: I've thought of the multiple instances of course. But it's a nightmare to maintain and it will use an awful amount of resources.

SVD_NL [2363978]: Oh I've got a steaming heap of nodejs toiling away somewhere 😂

Asbestos [2605613]: See my suggestion above?  Single interactive instance and then a bunch of “slave” instances for lack of a better term

kruug [2564233]: Steaming heap is right. Pick something sane.

Asbestos [2605613]: TurboPascal?

kruug [2564233]: FORTRAN, please.

Kivou [2000607]: I'm better of recoding the whole thing with slash commands.

SVD_NL [2363978]: Unfortunately discord doesn't quite work that way, for the stuff yata does you need a bot user (verification and stuff requires it). And a bot user means it needs to join the server which counts towards the limit

kruug [2564233]: COBOL if you need something rock solid.

SVD_NL [2363978]: *sadly puts away his COBOL punch cards*

Marvin: I've calculated your chance of survival, but I don't think you'll like it.

Asbestos [2605613]: FORTRAN is good. Lot of FORTRAN and cobol guys sitting on the bench since Y2K

Kivou [2000607]: No, fortran is my work language. I don't want to mix work and hobby ^^

kruug [2564233]: Rust is good.

kruug [2564233]: I've got 3 bots running on that.

kruug [2564233]: As much as I give Laz shit for it, Java with JDA would be good too.

Helmstetter [2272097]: <@227470975317311488> Will the free bot that handles player verifications be able to assign roles as well, or will it handle verifications only?

Asbestos [2605613]: I think the biggest immediate void will be the verification and channel role assignment.

Asbestos [2605613]: The other modules are good, but everyone uses verification/roles even if they don’t fully take advantage of the other modules

Kivou [2000607]: for now it's only verification and single role assignment. It's what's marvin is doing here right now.

Asbestos [2605613]: For what it’s worth <@443761869476462592> helped me get the bot straightened out on my faction server and I appreciated it a lot. Little call out to the homey. 🙂

Kivou [2000607]: You can check it in <#827470271203508274>

Kivou [2000607]: Not sure he can do much I'm afraid ^^

Asbestos [2605613]: He could offer a developer resource as this has become an important part of the user experience.

Asbestos [2605613]: Pause crimes 2.0. 🤣

kruug [2564233]: Quickest way forward is to petition Discord for verifying and approving the YATA bot for privileged intents.

Dyno [1043377]: What's Crimes 2.0?

kruug [2564233]: Cake

Kivou [2000607]: He never had the slightest interest in YATA as far as I can tell.

Asbestos [2605613]: An epic work of fiction.

Asbestos [2605613]: I actually think he doesn’t like it. It gives people visibility into things he like to have purposely suck, such as live chain reporting.

Asbestos [2605613]: He had to put that back in recently if we all remember the huge flap when he took it out.

Asbestos [2605613]: And “why would you hide something that was in Yata before and is still in Yata after” was used as leverage.

Marvin: Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Asbestos [2605613]: You’ve become sentient.

Kivou [2000607]: Didn't follow this story

Kivou [2000607]: I mean, it's his API right?

Kivou [2000607]: I'm just grabbing data from it.

Asbestos [2605613]: https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=4&t=16283092&b=0&a=0

Kivou [2000607]: ched's been chedded lol

cynikal [2130575]: Thanks, Asbestos, I truely enjoy helping people understand how things work. I (almost literally) demanded that Kivou make me staff because I saw Yata's value, and that I could cover what I perceived as "downtimes" for the other staff.

bandirao: It would have been really great if Discord ignored priviliged intents only for open-source Discord bots.

bandirao: All they care is about privacy and YATA bot is already on Github so that would be amazing.

bandirao: But I doubt they will do it.

Kivou [2000607]: indeed

Kivou [2000607]: From what I've seen on the forum thread discord pushed the deadline even further. But still I don't see myself rebuilding it for now.

Skimmy [2772640]: I honestly don’t mind paying bud, and folks the man can’t be updating for free!

Kromb [2111933]: Honestly

Kromb [2111933]: I’d be more then glad to compensate someone for work they did

VVoozy [2110553]: The csv export of the attacks report under faction in the site uses ` ,` as separator. It's easy to set the separator while parsing, but would it be better to use only `,` as the separator, since that's the default in office or pandas?

SVD_NL [2363978]: I'm a bit confused by this (maybe because the semantics between separator and delimiter can be a bit iffy), can you give an example of how it is now and how you'd like to see it?
Looking at the csv i don't really see how yata deviates from standards.

P.S. I'm kinda used to csv formats causing mental distress
*Cries in semicolon separated notation*

VVoozy [2110553]: There is a leading whitespace before each comma, i.e., `attacker_name, attacker_id, ...` so when I load the csv in, say, excel, the leadimg spaces remain in each column

Kivou [2000607]: When I ear csv I usually throw up so I'm not a good candidate to say what's standard or not. From what I remember I use a lib to convert raw data to csv format. So tbh I didn't give much thought on the semantic. But yeah I got you.